The 4th Annual State of the Industry Interview

Please join me and the rest of the Murderati crew in a warm welcome back to our favorite editor, the Legendary Honorary (Honorary Legendary?) Neil Nyren! Neil is the Senior Vice-President, Publisher, and Editor in Chief of Penguin Putnam, and edits some of my all-time favorite authors, including John Sandford and Daniel Silva. 

Neil has been kind enough to drop by and share his wealth of knowledge and expertise with us every Spring for the past few years, and I'm so excited to have him back again today for our 4th Annual State of the Industry interview.

If you've missed any of our previous interviews, feel free to indulge in their excellence here (2007), here (2008) and here (2009).

Without further ado - here we go!

This is our fourth sit-down in as many years, and I’m always struck by how much the industry changes from year to year. But from our chat last year to now, the changes have been exponential – at least on the surface.

Let me ask the question that’s on everyone’s minds – will eReaders kill physical books?

No, e-readers will not kill physical books. I know that some digerati like to think so, but that’s their own particular ax to grind. Right now, ebooks are still a very tiny part of our business – but obviously that percentage is going to grow. That’s why you saw so many new devices being introduced at the Consumer Electronics show in January, some of them multi-use, some of them dedicated e-readers, and that was even before the iPad. (Of course, only some of those devices will survive – I guarantee you some of them won’t be around in a couple of years). It’d gotten to the point where the electronics people could finally see enough of a future profit to make it worthwhile to put some r&d money into it. Now what’s going to happen is that the whole market will shake down, the major players will emerge – and ebooks will come into their own, side by side with the other formats. Some people will prefer them, just as some people prefer to listen to audio books. The more formats that exist, the more ways that books become available, the more books people will buy. So, really, I’m pretty happy about it.

Do you think that eventually there will be two separate publishing models – the traditional hard/soft or mass-market original releases, and separate authors doing exclusive ebooks?

I certainly think there’ll be more authors trying out ebooks on their own, and why not? It’s a new format, a new market, a new opportunity. As to how big or important a model it will turn out to be, I can answer that in three words: No. Body. Knows. Everybody’s figuring it out as we go along, and we’ll have a much better idea in a year or two. I think most authors are still likely to prefer the benefits of the traditional publishing program, but there’ll be others who still make some very good money from ebook originals, and of course others who’ll do a bit of both. It’ll be exciting to watch, that’s for sure!

Has the new technology changed the way you do your job? For example, have you moved to Kindle to review manuscripts?

If you’re talking about ebook technology, then it hasn’t changed things much for me personally. However, a lot of our editors and assistants do use e-readers to read submissions – it’s just much easier than toting home briefcases full of manuscripts. And all of our sales reps have them as well – instead of sending them manuscripts and sell sheets, we post them all on a server and they can download whatever they want. It’s a great deal more efficient, and they actually get a lot more read, which makes them even better at their job (and they’re pretty damn good already!).

The recession has hurt everyone – from huge publishing houses to new authors looking for their first deal. It feels like things are coming back. New authors are being offered contracts, established mid-list writers are re-upping. Are you buying?

Are we buying? We’ve always been buying! Recession or no recession, you’ve gotta have books to publish. Were we careful about what we bought, did we look hard at a book’s prospects, did we give a lot of thought to what we thought it was worth in today’s market? Of course! And we did that five years ago, and we’ll do it five years from now.

Have you seen a shift in editorial perspective over the past year? Are publishers looking for a different kind of book – blockbusters, niche, non-fiction – to break out and maintain (read: fund) the remainder of the list? Freeing you up to buy smaller books that will satisfy your taste and allows the authors to build over time?

The same answer applies to the question of what we’re looking for. Each publisher has different requirements, a different mix of titles and specialties and interests – and that really hasn’t changed, recession or no recession. We’re all basically just looking for good books, and books we think we can do something with – at whatever level that turns out to be. It doesn’t mean it has to be a blockbuster. I work for a commercial publisher, and obviously I try for the big books, too, because…I’m not stupid. But I spend much of my time working on less than blockbuster books, because that’s where the bread and butter of the industry lies, that’s where a lot of the good writers are, and that’s where – one hopes – some of the prize-winners and bestsellers of tomorrow will come from.

What common mistakes do you see authors make over and over again?

I guess the mistake that often bothers me the most is when authors get consumed by irrelevancies: this guy’s sales, that guy’s advance, why another writer gets more review space, why one reviewer never seems to like you, why another writer got higher on the bestseller list than you did, and so on. It’s your life, your career – not his. Let everybody else pay attention to themselves – you just do what’s right for you. See also some of my comments on the next question.

The dreaded BSP – Blatant Self-Promotion – has become a daily part of almost every author’s marketing plan – we are expected to maintain a website, participate on Facebook and Twitter, do blog tours, attend conferences on our own dime. Carolyn Haines wrote an article last week in the LA Times wondering if it was “smart” for a new author to drop her social networking in favor of working on her book. How do you feel about authors having to shoulder so much of the load?

Ah, yes, BSP. Painful (for some), but necessary. There’s no question that one of the essential ingredients in selling books is word of mouth. Good reviews, the recommendation of a friend/colleague/family member, hearing about a book through traditional print/electronic media or on the web – as M.J. Rose always says, if people don’t hear about a book, they ain’t going to buy it. And the author is an essential part of that process. The publisher will do whatever the publisher’s going to do, and sometimes that’ll be a whole lot and sometimes it won’t. But the plain truth of it is, no matter how much the publisher loves the book…nobody’s going to love it as much as the author. It’s your baby. As a writer, you are the CEO of your own business. You should make it a point to learn that business and to do whatever is necessary to make that business succeed.

That said – you still need to find the right balance. Because a big part of that success rests in writing damn good books, and it’s tough to do that if you’re spending all of your time on promotion. Not to mention that some authors are better suited for some kinds of promotion than for others. Not everybody is born to Twitter. Find out what works for you – it’s going to be different for everybody – and learn as you go along. Observe, experiment, be flexible, don’t get hung up on trivia. And remember: The book comes first.

Vampires. Zombies. What’s the next big thing?

The next big thing, huh? If I knew that, do you think I’d be working for a publishing house? I’d own a publishing house. But, yeah, I think vampires still have some life in them (oh, give me a break, I had to make that joke!). Zombies, I never thought they had much staying power. Vampires are just sexy – zombies, with all that rotting flesh, ugh, not so much. I have heard that angels might be a coming thing, as heralded by the success of Angelology. But, kids, that doesn’t mean you should all go out and start writing angel books. By the time you’ve written it, and it’s been submitted, and somebody’s bought it, and it’s been published, it may all be over (if it ever began, of course). They may be fallen angels. Paradise Lost: if it can happen to them, it can happen to you.

In my experience, many readers (ones who don’t write books) don’t understand the vital role editors play in a novel, hence the self-published industry growth. Two parter – what does an editor do? And will that need ever be supplanted?

Oh, man, an editor does everything. His first job, of course, is to find the book, and then make it the best book it can be. That means finding out what the book wants to be, and helping it get there – and that could mean anything from reshaping the whole text to just line-editing to, in rare cases, nothing at all. The editor is the crucial professional outside eye. Everybody needs one of those, no matter what you’ve written or in what format you’re publishing it.

But after the book is done – polished and perfect and glowing like a little gem – that’s when his job really begins. Because the book has to be published successfully, and every editor has to be a mini-publisher.  He has to be aware of every aspect of its publication and what every department in the house needs to know and needs to do to make that book successful – and that’s true no matter what level of sales you’re aiming at. The editor is the liaison between all the departments in the house – publicity, sub rights, production, everything. He always has to be thinking: what does the publicity department need to do something with this book? Is there a particular hook, is there something that can get the author media, does the author have contacts to draw upon to give us quotes, write an article, set up an autographing, buy quantities – anything to help things along? What’s the author’s track record? Sales has go to know. Has he published in magazines or newspapers? Sub rights has got to know. Is there any particular look for the jacket that might help? The art department has got to know. The editor has to think about all this, in conjunction with the other departments, and act as the conduit between those departments and the author.

So will the need for all that ever be supplanted? For the editorial, never. For the other parts, we all know examples of self-published authors who have been such dynamos that their books have gone on to significant and well-earned success. That’ll continue to be the case, whether we’re talking about paper books or ebooks. But being that dynamo requires a lot more time, energy and talent than most people have, which is why (among other reasons) most self-published books don’t have that kind of success. And that’ll continue to be the case, too. Allison Brennan had an interesting post partly on this very subject last Sunday on Murderati, so check it out here.

We’ve talked before about the book that got away – your white whale. Have you ever wanted to write your own? Fiction or non-fiction?

Have I ever wanted to write my own book? Well, the thought has crossed my mind, and knowing my own propensities, I’m sure it would be crime or suspense of some kind. But I know where my talents lie. I’m very good at helping other people achieve the best from their writing. If I wrote my own, I suspect it would turn out to be…downright adequate. But you never know. One day, when all the meetings and phone calls are behind me….

On to the impossible questions:

Your favorite book last year was?

I liked too many books last year to pick a favorite. I think the one that impressed me the most, however, was Dan Chaon’s AWAIT YOUR REPLY. (Everyone reading Murderati today, be warned: it’s very dark – but breathtaking.) I also had a blast with Charlie Huston’s THE MYSTIC ARTS OF ERASING ALL SIGNS OF DEATH. And Sophie Littlefield’s A BAD DAY FOR SORRY had me at its title.

Your favorite movie last year was?

For movies, the same caveat. But I was knocked out by THE HURT LOCKER – I thought it deserved all the awards it got. AN EDUCATION was a complete delight all around. And any year that Hiyao Miyazaki releases a new animated film is a banner year – last year’s PONYO wasn’t his best, but wondrous all the same.

Who’s going to win the World Series?

When it comes to baseball, let’s put it this way: Last year, when I celebrated my 25^th anniversary at Putnam, my author Randy Wayne White sent me a present. It was a custom-made Red Sox jersey with my name and the number “25” on the back. I have Red Sox memorabilia strewn around my office, and a Red Sox symbol on my office door. So I think you can guess where I’m coming from here.

And finally, what did you do with the pink feather boa you earned at Sluethfest?

For the uninitiated among the readers, every year the women at Sleuthfest vote for the winner of the Flamango Award. This year, the five finalists included Barry Eisler, David Morrell and me. Eisler won, of course – really, it wasn’t a fair contest (and I still say there was something wrong with the returns from Palm Beach….). But all five of us were draped with boas. Alas, we didn’t get to keep them – they were on loan only and will bedeck next year’s honorees. I must say Eisler, Morrell and I looked quite fetching – not everybody can carry off that look, you know. And if people search really, really hard, they might just find some video online.

As always, Neil, it was a true pleasure having you here. Thank you!!!

Neil Nyren is the senior vice president, publisher and editor in chief of G.P. Putnam’s Sons. He’s been involved in the careers of many of today’s leading authors, including Tom Clancy, Clive Cussler, Jack Higgins, W.E.B. Griffin, John Sandford, Dave Barry, Daniel Silva, Ken Follett, Alex Berenson, Randy Wayne White, Carol O’Connell, James O. Born, Patricia Cornwell and Frederick Forsyth. His non-fiction list reads like a who’s who as well: Bob Schieffer, Maureen Dowd, John McEnroe, Linda Ellerbee, Jeff Greenfield, Charles Kuralt, Secretary of State James Baker III, Thomas P.M. Barnett, Sara Nelson, and Generals Fred Franks, Chuck Horner, Carl Stiner, Tony Zinni and Wendy Merrill.

Neil Nyren on the State of the Industry

Interviewed by J.T. Ellison

For the past two years, we’ve been lucky enough to have publishing guru Neil Nyren join us for an annual glimpse into the inner working of the publishing industry. I was so happy when Neil agreed to come back again, for his third annual State of the Industry interview! Especially now, with publishing in flux, it’s important to get the real skinny on the industry. Links to the past two interviews can be found here (2007) and here (2008). They’re well worth a read.

Neil Nyren is the senior vice president, publisher and editor in chief of G.P. Putnam’s Sons. He’s been involved in the careers of many of today’s leading authors, including Tom Clancy, Clive Cussler, Jack Higgins, W.E.B. Griffin, John Sandford, Dave Barry, Daniel Silva, Ken Follett, Alex Berenson, Randy Wayne White, Carol O’Connell, James O. Born, Patricia Cornwell and Frederick Forsyth. His non-fiction list reads like a who’s who as well: Bob Schieffer, Maureen Dowd, John McEnroe, Linda Ellerbee, Jeff Greenfield, Charles Kuralt, Secretary of State James Baker III, Thomas P.M. Barnett, Sara Nelson, and Generals Fred Franks, Chuck Horner, Carl Stiner, Tony Zinni and Wendy Merrill. And if that’s not enough of an endorsement, he’s just been nominated as Best Editor by Spinetingler Magazine. (You can vote for Neil here.)

I’m always thrilled when Neil comes for a visit, so without further ado, here we go!

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The state of the industry is in flux, and we’re all looking for answers. What can you tell us to calm the incipient waves?

Not surprisingly, because of the economy, I’ve gotten asked this a lot the last few months, because everybody’s read all the bad news: layoffs, restructurings, pay freezes, wobbly sales, etc. And, yup, that’s bad. But I point out a few things.

First, it’s bad for everybody right now – we’re in a recession. Much as we like to think we’re the center of the world, God has not struck publishing and passed over everybody else (you can see I have the season on my mind). I’ve also been around long enough to see several cycles come and go – the lean years and the fat years, when we all staff up and buy books like mad.

And it isn’t as if we aren’t buying books now, because we are. We’re being careful, sure (mostly, though some of the buys recently – well, I’m not going to comment), but a publisher’s got to have books. That’s our business. And it’s not all the tried-and-true or big celebrities (though the latter is what tends to get the ink). I’ve just taken a quick look and at Putnam we bought four first novels in March. Other first novels from four different publishers, including us – The Help, Beat the Reaper, The Piano Teacher, Hotel on the Corner of Bitter and Sweet – have made the NYT hardcover list in the first months of this year. That’s pretty encouraging, isn’t it?

All we’re looking for, when it comes to fiction, is a good story. That hasn’t changed, and never will. No matter what happens, the best advice I can give to anybody reading this blog: Just write the best damn book you can.

I know many editors and agents are using Kindles to read submissions. Do you have a Kindle? Outside of the convenience factor, is it the death of the bound book?

Here you start getting into other “in flux” questions, of course. Because we’re not just talking about the Kindle or the Sony Reader, but, all e-reading devices, including smartphones, PDAs, and Dick Tracy’s wrist TV. But I don’t think e-readers are the death of the bound book. It’s still early in the game, and most people aren’t reading e-books yet – Penguin’s income from e-books increased several hundredfold last year from the year before, but that’s still just a teensy-tiny part of our income. However, it is going to keep growing as the apps spread and the physical e-readers improve, and then they’ll simply be one more way to enjoy a book, for those who prefer it (the same way some people like audio books now). But the printed book will always endure. A piece of plastic will never replace the look and feel and smell of paper.

And, no, I don’t have an e-reader, but many of our editors do, not only for books, but, as you say, for submissions. It’s much easier to download a submitted ms and read it that way than to stuff a 500-page ms in your bag. And as I noted on Murderati a while ago, all our sales reps have them, too, so that they’re not afflicted with massive towers of paper teetering around their homes. We have public network folders they can access, and download any ms they want – it gives them a lot more flexibility, and they end up reading more before they sell it than they might have otherwise.

Electronic galleys and catalogs are all the rage – as a cost-saving measure and as an environmental issue. Do you think this is a good trend? Will all publishers move to this model in the near future?

In line with the above, you’ve asked about electronic galleys and catalogues. Harper’s moved to the latter, as have some smaller publishers, and I’m sure there aren’t many publishers who aren’t studying it in some way. I think you’re going to see a lot of it. Printed catalogues are outdated as soon as they roll off the press. Jackets change, publicity and promo details change, plots change, new books are suddenly dropped in – digital catalogues can be constantly refreshed and updated. For me, they just make sense. And they’re short enough so that they’re easy to download for anybody who needs a physical copy.

The future’s a little hazier for electronic galleys, though I think their use will increase. These galleys are meant for reviewers, booksellers, media – a whole host of people – and until all of them have an e-reader, their use is bound to be limited. And even then, a lot of people are likely to want that individual ARC. But – time will tell.

What do you think of the new policy at Thomas Nelson, where they’re making a book, e-book and audio book available for one price? Is this the future of publishing?

I’m not going to comment on Nelson. But here’s one thing I do want to say. There’s a chorus out there that claims publishers should charge next to nothing for e-books, because it cost us next to nothing to produce them. But – and I know I’m going to rile them, but too bad – that’s nonsense. The physical manufacturing of a book is only one small part of a publisher’s costs. It makes no difference if a book is printed or formatted for download, most of the costs are apart from that: the advance (and later royalties), the editing, the copyediting, the proofreading, the design, the marketing, the publicity, all the staff involved in each of those stages. The actual ppb – paper, printing and binding – is not a very big piece. And even when discussing the costs of producing an e-book, there are still plenty involved in formatting for all the different platforms out there, warehousing, and the staff involved in all that.

E-books don’t cost much? Please.

The rate of change in technology is becoming quicker every day. In most cases, readers will get to the next new technology before we do. Can we adapt fast enough and what are publishers doing to adapt to the changes?

Unfortunately, tech is not really my area of expertise, and I am eternally grateful that there are phalanxes of people around here whose responsibility it is to think about it every single day. So I can’t answer this in any intelligible way. I’m fascinated, though, by the bits and pieces I do see: the aforementioned apps for any conceivable device, for instance. The experiments in selling – I’ve just read about one test in some stores to get them more involved in e-book selling. They’re selling cards with a book cover on one side and a code on the other – the customer buys the card, has it activated at the register, and downloads the e-book there or at home. Interesting, right?

Then there are the evolving e-book formats – there’s a new one that allows for two-minute videos, and I’ve just read about a thriller on offer containing “two dozen short videos with actors that augment the book’s main mystery.” It’s called a Vook. I know, not exactly mellifluous, but hey.

Everybody’s Twittering – publishers, authors, bookstores. The bookstore use interests me most, because they’re using it to drive people into signings and events. Publishers are doing a lot with e-cards and videos for accounts – I have a new book for which the author created his own video ad, and we’ve made it available for any account who wants it, and we’re also using it as a paid web advertisement on a number of blogs.

And here’s a cool thing that Penguin UK has done – “We Tell Stories,” a site on which six authors wrote six stories over six weeks, with a mysterious “secret” seventh story involved – it recently won a web award from SXSW. (Editor’s Note: SXSW is South by Southwest, an annual music, movie and technology exposition in Austin, Texas.)

In all industries, businesses are looking for the next great market. Are you looking at opportunities in new emerging markets overseas or among new target audiences within existing markets?

Well, I think the next great market might in fact be e-books, once everything’s sorted out – that some of the customers will be people who aren’t regular readers. We’re also always looking for opportunities in non-book venues – for The Friday Night Knitting Club novel, for instance, we held events in yarn stores. We have whole departments dedicated to special sales and gift sales and college adoptions. Overseas, there are offices – even whole divisions – opening in places like China and India, even Dubai!

In every recession, new businesses and firms rise from the ashes. With all of the layoffs in publishing, what type of business would you suggest they start?

I’ve seen a number of people, not surprisingly, become agents and packagers. I think there’ll be a host of digital opportunities, though – just the other week, I saw an item about a former Doubleday editor and a friend who develops mobile phone games teaming up to launch an imprint for new books to be published on mobile platforms. Another editor left on his own accord to start a recipe website from great chefs and cookbooks authors. I’m sure we’re going to see a lot more of that kind of thing (cellphone novels, incidentally, are all the rage in Japan, so much so that traditional publishers are even taking the most successful and putting them into print!).

What do new authors need to know about how to break in to publishing? Has anything changed?

It depends what kind of publishing they want to break into, I suppose. For traditional publishing, very little has changed. Most (though not all) of us still want agented manuscripts, but editors have been reaching out and finding books through blogs, websites, Twitter (and maybe even cellphones!). Some self-published books have done well and then got picked up by mainstream publishers. And as far as really non-traditional publishing goes, well, we’ve been discussing a little bit of that above. I can’t give much advice on that – I’ve no idea! – but, really, who knows?

Finally, for new authors – and for any authors – here’s something I want to say. I was asked at a conference a few months ago what advice I’d give to writers and – boom or recession, print or e-books, fiction or nonfiction – here’s my best shot:

One, if you’re a writer, write. Write every day. Put your butt in that chair. I don’t care how many pages you turn out, just produce something every day. I know one writer who sometimes speaks at writers’ conferences and begins by asking, “How many here are serious about being writers?” Most, of course, raise their hands. “Then what are you doing here? Go back to your rooms, go back to your homes, go write!”

Two, learn the business. As a writer, you are the CEO of your own business. Nobody will care as much as you do. You should make it your job to learn that business. Don’t assume your publisher knows everything. Do you know what one of the most common answers in publishing is, no matter who asks the question? “I don’t know.” The other is, “It depends.” How many copies will the book sell? I don’t know. Will there be a paperback edition? It depends. Will the NYT review it? Gee, I don’t know. Will you spell my name right on the jacket? It depends.

Learn the business. Observe, listen, question. Be flexible. And don’t get hung up on the trivia that sidetracks so many people. Which leads to:

Three, be happy (I’m indebted to Joe Konrath, on whose site I first saw this advice, and which I’ve adapted a little). Do you know what I’m talking about here? Look, you all know people who think like this. I’ll be happy...when I finish my book. I’ll be happy...when I land an agent. I’ll be happy...when I sell that book. I’ll be happy...when I sell three books...when I make 100K a book...when I hit the NYT bestseller list...when I hit #1 on the NYT bestseller list...when I hit #1 for 5 weeks on the NYT bestseller list...when the movie from my book, starring George Clooney, Angelina Jolie and Meryl Streep makes $400 million at the box office and wins best picture....

These people are never happy. Be happy now. Of course, set goals for yourself, then set new goals, move yourself forward. You may never be at perfect peace with this business. All you can do is try your best, learn from failures, and celebrate successes no matter how small. Be happy now.

And for the fun stuff:

You must have more books than you know what to do with. How do you arrange your books on your book shelves – alphabetical, format, subject???

Hahahaha. Arrange, you say? Come, meet my friends, “helter” and “skelter.” Where shall we begin? With the overstuffed bookshelves? The piles on the floor? The stacks on my bedroom window sill and night table?

Best movie you’ve seen in the past six months?

Impossible task #1, but here are three: Tell No One, Happy Go Lucky, Slumdog Millionaire.

Best book you’ve read?

Impossible task #2, but here are two: The Lost City of Z by David Grann. This is nonfiction, about the explorations deep into the Amazon over the last century-plus to find a supposed lost advanced civilization in the jungle. Many men went, and a lot of them never came out again. Grann, a very good journalist, became fascinated with all this, and during the course of his researches, decided...to try it himself. Understand, he describes himself as a guy who lives on the second floor of his building in Brooklyn and, when given the choice, always takes the elevator. But off he went into the jungle himself, and his adventures are intertwined with that of the historical explorers. Good stuff.

And the second is Charlie Huston’s latest The Mystic Arts of Erasing All Signs of Death. Very dark and funny as hell. There’s no one writing like him.

Thank you so much for joining us today!

Wine of the Week: Here's a wine tip in Neil's honor: Chateau de la Negly Coteaux du Lanuedoc. It's a mature wine, dark and inky, and very rich. Excellent stuff.

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Neil S. Nyren is senior vice president, publisher and editor in chief of G.P. Putnam’s Sons. He came to Putnam in 1984 from Atheneum, where he was Executive Editor. Before that he held editorial positions at Random House and Arbor House. Someof the author’s he’s edited are Tom Clancy, Clive Cussler, Jack Higgins, W.E.B. Griffin, John Sandford, Dave Barry, Daniel Silva, Ken Follett, Alex Berenson, Randy Wayne White, Carol O’Connell, James O. Born, Patricia Cornwell and Frederick Forsyth; and non-fiction by Bob Schieffer, Maureen Dowd, John McEnroe, Linda Ellerbee, Jeff Greenfield, Charles Kuralt, Secretary of State James Baker III, Thomas P.M. Barnett, Sara Nelson, and Generals Fred Franks, Chuck Horner, Carl Stiner, Tony Zinni and Wendy Merrill.